In the years before the publication of the book “Alcoholics Anonymous,” we had no name. . .by a narrow majority the verdict was for naming our book “The Way Out.” . . .One of our early lone members. . . found exactly twelve books already titled “The Way Out.”. . . So “Alcoholics Anonymous” became first choice. That’s how we got a name for our book of experience, a name for our movement and, as we are now beginning to see, a tradition of the greatest spiritual import. “A.A. TRADITION: HOW IT DEVELOPED.” pp. 35-36
Beginning with Bill’s momentous decision in Akron to make a telephone call rather than a visit to the hotel bar, how often has a Higher Power made itself felt at crucial moments in our history! The eventual importance that the principle of anonymity would acquire was but dimly perceived, if at all, in those early days. There seems to have been an element of chance even in the choice of a name for our Fellowship.
God is no stranger to anonymity and often appears in human affairs in the guises of “luck”, “chance,” or “coincidence.” If anonymity, somewhat fortuitously, became the spiritual basis for all of our Traditions, perhaps God was acting anonymously on our behalf.
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You have implied that if I am a good AA I get a fast track to heaven and Gods grace?
But… if I am a bad AA I get jails, institutions, and DEATH?
To me this looks cult like, how does it look to you?
Hey Friend,
I really do not know who you are. But that point you mentioned in this post, about god, perhaps being/playing anonymous roles is quite interesting. It also happens to be my conscious effort to push a few similar points though possibly with a different goal.
I would like to understand a little more about alcoholics anonymous that you had mentioned. I saw the website and now this blog, but would like to know it from somebody who can talk, so that I can understand a perspective to what AA is.
– Vinay Chaganti
http://www.aa.org is the official website. You can get info about our program there, decide if AA is for you, find a local meeting, and there should be a 24 hour hotline if you need/want to talk to a fellow recovered alcoholic. That phone number has helped to save my life from alcoholic despair.
You’ll also find that AA is anything but a cult.
Hope that gives you a start, Vinay.
Court Card: It may look like a cult to you because you do not understand what you are “seeing.” A person is not a Good or a Bad AA. It is an individual practice that many of us use to overcome an addiction to alcohol, and then in the long run to become a better person. I don’t believe in God, I am a Buddhist. I avoided AA for many years because of the Christian overtones of much of the literature and conversations and the constant references to God. However, I was desperate enough to begin listening anyway. I have since discovered than many of the tenants of AA are shared with Buddhist teachings. It is just that AA uses the Christian philosophy to deliver the messages.
AA is not a cult. This is a program that you are free to involve yourself in or not. You can go drinking if you like, we will not judge you or chain you to a tree until you “see the way.” I have enough work to do on myself without trying to “convert” others. I am supportive and will – without hesitation – help those who ask for it. Other than that, it is up to you brother.
Robert,
It looks to me as if it is perfectly cult like. I think you may be brainwashed or programmed. Consider the fact that YOU got yourself sober and your life is better because you adopted a wholesome way of life consistent with natural law.
Here are some characteristics as listed by the International Cultic Studies Org.
The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
? Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
? Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
? The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).
? The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
? The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
? The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
? The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members’ participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, abandoning family or friends, or going to meetings instead of taking care of personal obligations).
? The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
? Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.
? The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
? The group is preoccupied with making money.
? Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
? Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
? The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
Robert,
The statement
You do not understand what you are “seeing.”
is cult speak.
The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
I know that it’s difficult to apply the concept of anonymity to the spiritual journey that I’m on today but I have come to understand that anonymity is a necessary part of developing the spiritual maturity for humility. For an alcoholic ego like mine, the most difficult lesson to learn is that “it’s not all about me”. I am just a tiny grain of sand on the beach, but I want to be the entire ocean!!!$
The fun of the Daily Reflections is the level of controversy that can arise out of something simply designed to encourage people to meditate on the bigger whole. Much of the AA tradition comes from the Book of James and much of James is buddist/hindu in it’s simplicity. If you really want to see some similarities, check out the Gospel of Thomas, which wasn’t available in English until well after the Big Book was published in 1937.
As for the cult issue, the General Service Office at http://www.aa.org can give you the official perspective, but I can offer the following information from the perspective of one individual who got sober in 1983 — this is my opinion and experience only!
1- excessive commitment to its leader, etc. — “Our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern” — “every AA group is autonomous except on matters affecting other groups or the fellowship as a whole” — if you read “Pass It On” and “Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers” you will see that the Trustees have shown our co-founders with all their warts and limitations as the imperfect human beings that they were. The 12-tradition discourages “elder statesmen” from becoming “bleeding deacons.”
2-Questioning, doubt, etc — I would suggest sitting in on a group conscious meeting if you want to see dissent in action — there is no “punishment” in AA, and I can guarantee that I have questioned, doubted, dissented, argued, bellowed, etc. etc. to my heart’s content in AA for 26 years and NO ONE has every asked me to leave. The 12-concepts for service insist that “the minority opinion be heard” and warn of the group think that can lead to poor decision making.
3- Mind-altering practices — Meditation is an individual undertaking that comes with the 11th step and is coupled with prayer to a higher power of your own understanding — the only “chant” is the use of the Serenity Prayer and/or Lord’s Prayer to open/close meetings which varies widely across the country/world — speaking in tongues doesn’t occur! denunciation sessions do not occur! debilitating work routines does not appropriately describe assuming the responsibility for making the coffee before a meeting or emptying ashtrays. Again, there are no “leaders”
4- The Big Book, 12 x 12, and Service manual all encourage AA members to think whatever they want — they also encourage members to not pick up the first drink, get a job and pay their bills, love or at least be nice to the family, obey the law, quit dressing like a whore/street person, and generally be a contributing member of society. If you don’t need encouragement to fulfill these desires, you probably don’t need AA in the first place. Sponsors may encourage specific behaviors, but sponsors are NOT a requirement and can be fired — I have fired and been fired numerous times!
5- Elitist, messiah, etc – The principle of Anonymity says that No One is to be held above others; old timers are important but new comers are more important because they remind us from where we come. There is no special mission to save humanity, just a way of life that helps some people get out of the grip of alcohol. There are other methods to accomplish this and AA admits that; AA also encourages members to seek additional assistance from physicians, clergyman, lawyers, etc. to address issues that they can’t resolve in AA. Anonymous means we aren’t special. Step 11 prayer says to be essentially a person among people.
6- UsvsThem – The Big Book says we need to be understanding and patient when approaching individuals that don’t understand alcoholism and make every effort to fit into the world in our proper place. There is a chapter on To Employers that basically tells AAs to get sober, quit whining, and be a good employee. The chapter on The Family Afterward basically says, get sober, quit whining, and be a good member of the family. “We quit fighting everybody and every thing, especially alcohol”.
7- Leadership authority — Again, AA doesn’t have a leader. The business function at the group, district, regional, and international moves from the bottom up. On matters affecting only one group or district, the members of that group/district discuss, debate and decide what to do. If it affects AA as a whole it is taken the General Service Conference which is made up of representatives who are elected from the group, district, and regional levels. If a matter is of significant importance, it goes back to the groups for a vote before any change is made. Any AA member serving in a position of trusted servant can be removed by the decision of the group if they are exhibiting behaviors contrary to their responsibilities — such as spending coffee money to buy cigarettes.
8- Ends justify means — absolutely not! The principles of the steps say that right action is what is important and being a responsible member of society is an important part of getting and staying sober. I had a family that needed to be abandoned but was encouraged to work on myself and not burn bridges. The only “friends” I was encouraged to dump where the ones that would encourage me to drink and use instead of stay sober. I have many friends that still drink, even some former AA members who left the program, and that’s not a problem for anyone I know. Going to meetings is an important part of the recovery process, but personal obligations (work, family) should always come first. This is stressed in many places in the Big Book.
9- Shame/guilt/control — AA members are encouraged to be happy, joyous, and free. There are steps outlined specifically to get rid of shame and guilt. There are no AA police watching your cart at the grocery store. The 8th and 9th steps are designed to help me make amends for my past mistakes so I don’t have to make them anymore. Talk about a ticket OUT of shame/guilt/control from others.
10- Goals/activities — As an AA member I was encouraged to rediscover the interests and goals that I had before alcohol took control of my life and to assess if I still wanted to pursue those. As for letting go of sleeping with men to get drugs or stealing from my family to get booze, those are the kinds of interests and goals that most people would discourage anyway. I would be willing to be that more adults re-enter schools and educational programs as a result of AA than any of us can imagine. I know countless individuals who have learned to read, finished high school, gone to college (and graduate school), learned to paint or draw, took up new and exciting hobbies since coming to AA. Becoming a well-rounded individual is not a bad thing.
11- New members — Our public relations program is based on attraction rather than promotion. If a newcomer wants to come in for help, we welcome them regardless of the circumstances. If they don’t come back, we don’t hunt them down. Some groups/districts do run public service announcements, but I have never stood on a street corner handing out tracts for AA nor do I go trolling through non-related websites looking to change other people’s ways of living.
12- Money — now that’s funny! Most AA groups are nearly broke and World Service only keeps the doors open from the sale of literature. Hazelton makes more money on the Big Book than AA does. When I first came to AA in 1982, people put $1 in the basket at a meeting. 27 years later, most people still put $1 in the basket at a meeting. There are no dues or fees; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. We pay rent to the meeting hall, buy the coffee, and buy the literature. There is nothing in AA that constitues “making money”.
13- Devotion of time — In my first 90 days of sobriety, it was suggested that I spend my time concentrating on sobriety rather than drinking — what a shock! My experience has been that if I put 1/10th the energy into recovery that I put into drinking, life is pretty good. If I devote a little extra every now and then, it gets even better. Wow, spending time doing positive things feels better than wallowing in my drunken state, imagine that.
14-living/socializing together — AA does suggest that newcomers spend time around people who have some experience in sobriety in an effort to help them learn a new manner of behavior. This is by no means a hard and fast rule and many newcomers transition into more time around old-timers after they’ve been sober a while. Let’s see, hanging out with sober friends who like to play volleyball by headlight on the beach at midnight or watching my same old buddies listening to Pink Floyd stoned in front of cartoons eating day-old Taco Bell — you make the call. I can tell you from experience that “dating” someone in recovery is considered by some to be akin to incest and therefore individuals in AA should date people outside of AA — and they do suggest you wait for a year of sobriety so you don’t pick the sickest puppy of the bunch and substitute a human being as a drug.
15- I have lived as an active and productive member of society for over 26 years. I have a good job and the people I work with don’t know that I’m in AA because it has no bearing on my job. I am a member of a religious organization and my fellow members don’t know that I’m in AA because it has no bearing on my religious activities. I have close friends in AA, I have close friends who have left AA, I have close friends who have never been to an AA meeting in their life and wouldn’t know what to do if they did. The Big Book instructs members to go out a get a life, to be a part of society instead of an outcase.
Now that I’ve had my good laugh of the day and a little bit of soap box (I apologize) I can suggest that anybody who wants to understand Alcoholics Anonymous should read the first 164 pages of the Big Book (that’s the only part that hasn’t changed since 1937). For a deeper understanding of how the steps and traditions work deal with our interactions with ourselves and others should read the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions. If you really want to look for a cultist conspiracy and grow spiritually by accident, try reading The Twelve Concepts for World Service found in the AA Service Manual.
The most important thing to remember about this post is that it is MY OPINION ONLY! If it ain’t in the Big Book, 12 x 12, Service Manual, or AA (GSO) approved literature — then it ain’t AA. If what you find in a meeting doesn’t jibe with what you find in those reading materials, it ain’t AA. There are an awfully lot of BB meetings out there — I don’t know what exactly they are but they ain’t AA! If you try a meeting and don’t like it, you can always try another one. If you try an online Friends of Bill W chat room and find it offensive, well I understand how you feel.
If you don’t like what this website has to offer, there are plenty of others out there to go for. I’m glad I’m here. If I could have stopped drinking on my own (and God knows I tried) I wouldn’t have ever tried AA. If I it hadn’t turned me into a productive, loving, and better member of the planet earth, I wouldn’t have stayed. Keep Coming Back — if you want to.
1- Excessive commitment to its leader, etc. — Bill Wilson, Anonymous alcoholic.
2-Questioning, doubt, etc — Those who dissent are cast out from the group, this avoids individual responsibility.
3- Mind-altering practices — Slogans, sayings, rhymes, platitudes, absolutes, and musts.
4- The Big Book has only mild suggestions- Those who fail have not rigorously followed our path. Your options are death, insanity, institutions.
5- Elitist, messiah, etc – What about Bill Wilson or people like yourself with allot of time. I see you have all the answers to discredit an outside idea.
6- Uses Them – To get new members through attraction.
7- Leadership authority — You appear to be an authority. What about your book, soft propaganda, and Bill Wilson.
8- Ends justify means —You will go to any length to arrest alcoholism.
9- Shame/guilt/control — Stick with the winners, meeting makers make it, go to meetings till you like it then keep going, 90 in 90, no relationships in the first year.
10- Goals/activities — Working with new people. Attending retreats, workshops, meetings, meetings, meetings, etc.
11- New members — Our public relations program is based on attraction rather than promotion. The best subject is a surrendered one. The love bomb is a classic cult characteristic.
12- Money — We are self supporting through our own contributions. This way no one can scrutinize your activity.
13- Devotion of time — Most members go at least four hours a week. Many go much much more. Once a day attendance is encouraged at 1.5 hours per meeting not including the meeting before and after the meeting. Total suggested time, over 15 hours a week.
14-living/socializing together — Stick with the winners. Coffee after the meeting. Traveling meetings, panels, sober living houses. Conventions, retreats, house meetings.
15- Many have lived as an active and productive member of society for over 20 years. This solidifies the righteous self importance of the long time member and helps to convince them and others that what they are doing is worthwhile. For a program that pledges humility I sure notice allot of self importance imposed by those with time. How does it feel to take a birthday for 20 plus years and have people idolize and worship you?
I love this website (-;
I am not going anywhere.
Why can’t you just say it.
I NEED A CULT TO STAY SOBER.
I will go to any lengths, even if it means joining a cult.